[4] Storytelling and Bonds feat. Bayana A. Davis

In this episode of Culture by Culture, Delia interviews Bayana A. Davis, writer, host of the podcast #WizardTeam, and CEO of Black Nerds Create. We discuss Naruto, bonds, siblings, Black boy vulnerability, and books. What are your cross cultural book recommendations?

Book Recommendations:

Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao*, Daughter of the Moon Goddess* by Sue Lynn Tan*, These Violent Delights, Our Violent Ends, & Foul Lady Fortune* by Chloe Gong*, Jade City by* Fonda Lee.

Things discussed in this episode:

• Anime & Manga: Naruto, Wallflower, Puchi Puri Princess, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Bleach, Boondocks
• Avatar the Last Airbender
  • Zutara
• K-dramas
• Famous folks: Megan thee Stallion, Michael B. Jordan
• Legendborn by Tracey Deonn
• Lord of the Rings
• Reboot culture

Guest

This episode’s guest, is my homie, Bayana A. Davis host of the podcast #WizardTeam, CEO of Black Nerds Create, and writer. You can find her in these places:

• Site | Podcast | Instagram | Twitter

---

Find us online:

• Site | Patreon | Instagram | Twitter

Credits

• Host, Executive Producer, Editor, Engineer: Delia

  Personal Twitter | Personal Instagram | Personal Site

About Culture by Culture

Culture by Culture is a multidimensional podcast exploration into Black and Asian pop-cultural ties. Part sociology, history, and pop-culture podcast, it covers everything from deep-dives into our favorite gateway media, interviews with experts to help guide us through our historical and current cultural connections, and conversations with fellow nerds digging into our cultural identities and our pop-cultural interests.

Our mission is to understand and foster the unity that has historically existed between our cultures through our shared interests in each other’s pop-culture.

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Hey there, welcome to Culture by Culture, a multi-dimensional exploration of Black and

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Asian pop cultural ties.

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I’m your friendly host, Delia, and today I’m joined by the CEO of Black Marriage Create.

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She’s also one third of the Fantasy Podcasts Wizard team, a writer, and my homie, Briana

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Davis.

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Yay!

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Hi!

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Hi!

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How’s it going?

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Good!

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I’m excited.

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Thank you for granting us your presence.

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You’re a very, very busy person, I know, as the homie.

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Yeah, that’s true.

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But also, you know, duh, of course I was gonna be here, so.

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Listeners, it depends where you’re coming from.

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If you’re coming from the BNC audience, like you’ve definitely heard us on podcasts, we’ve

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done a lot together.

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This is not our first go-round for sure.

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We’ve done things like BNC Presents Tolkien of Black Girls, where we talked about Lord

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of the Rings, because we are big Lord of the Rings fans.

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Not this audience, but just noting.

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We also did one that was Patreon exclusive for now, called Chakran Vibes, where we talked

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about Naruto.

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Yeah, our chaotic son.

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Yeah, I think this might be the first thing we’ve been on together, though, that we can

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like publicly talk about anime and things like that, so I’m pretty excited.

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Yeah, me too.

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So I guess we could start with, what are your, I kind of spoiled it a little bit with Naruto,

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but in general, what are your experiences with Asian pop culture?

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Yeah, so, I mean, primarily Naruto.

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I started reading the manga when I was like, nine or ten maybe?

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My brothers were like a year and a half apart, and so he started a lot at that time.

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Growing up, we shared books for the most part, so we have very similar tastes, and so he

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was reading it, and I had finished my books, so I was like, well, let me see what’s going

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on over here.

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And then it kind of just went from there.

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I also, I realized, as you were saying, we’re, I don’t know, something sparked in my head.

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Waflower, that- Oh my goodness.

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I’m like, I can’t, I don’t think that’s the full name, but that was big for me in high

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school.

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What a wonderful time.

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There were like, I feel like in high school, there were like mangas that I would read.

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I’m not remembering names though, because I feel like I just was like reading them and

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then moving on, and you know, you would be online and you get like one chapter at a time

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or whatever.

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And like, that’s pretty much it.

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I have wanted to get like more into anime, but I am notoriously bad at watching television

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and have been for the last like five or something years.

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That’s gonna be a theme.

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I know.

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And so I feel like a fraud.

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I’m like, I love the themes of anime.

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I want to watch more anime, but I never have time and I never like, I just have it.

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It’s just the list is growing, but has not actually, none of it’s been checked off.

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And then I like similarly asked Delia like two years ago to make me a list of K-dramas

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I should watch.

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And I’ve seen two in that like two years, two in full.

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So it’s rough out here and I’m on my like fourth rewatch of Naruto right now, but that’s

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partially because I’m watching it with my younger sister who is like watching it for

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the first time.

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Yeah, we’ll allow it.

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Yes.

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That list is languishing, but to be fair, it’s almost like it’s kind of a thing we

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have like a push and pull.

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I give her K-dramas to watch.

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She says she’ll watch them one day.

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She gives me books to read.

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I say I’ll read them one day.

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It’s the dynamic.

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And you know, I believe in us.

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It will happen.

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Like that’s what I’m saying.

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The thing is, I truly believe our intentions.

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Like I know we both intend to, but just life be the way it is sometimes.

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And it’ll eventually all the stars will align and it’ll be great.

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It’ll be great.

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I will say you mentioned the wallflower and I think that is what it was called.

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I don’t remember its Japanese name, but I’m so curious.

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We’ve talked about that we both liked it, but I don’t know how you got into it because

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it was not incredibly popular.

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I feel like it was pretty niche.

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I think it was like one of my friends in high school was like, we kind of, I don’t remember

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why or how it came up, but I know that she like let me borrow like maybe the first two

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copies or something.

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And yeah, like I read them and then I sat that was around the same time that I realized

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that I didn’t have to wait around to like buy like we used to buy all the like Naruto,

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you know, we go to Barnes and Noble and like buy them.

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And then I eventually realized like, no, this is like actually much further along and like

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waiting on American publishing is not going to work for me.

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So you know, the internet.

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So yes, I like went from there, but yeah, somebody introduced it to me and then I just

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like found it and just read it.

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And like, it’s very different vibe from Naruto.

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Let me know.

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Yeah, it’s completely different.

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It’s like has some has some elements, you know, their choices that are made for those

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who don’t know.

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So it’s a yeah, I guess it is a harem manga and like theme or reverse harem, reverse harem

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death.

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Yeah.

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And it’s about this girl whose name is Sunako, I think.

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And they know this lady, they’re staying in her house.

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So I guess they’re like her daughter or something like that.

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They’re trying to turn her into this nice lady because Sunako is like a goth girl, but

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like who also happens to look like Samara from the ring a little bit, which was a big

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theme back in the day in anime.

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Yeah.

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And it sounds like on the surface, like, OK, what was so significant about it, but it was

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so funny.

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And I just really in weird ways related to that character.

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Yeah, it was just like, I don’t know, it was hilarious.

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And there were just like these moments where like all of a sudden she would like turn around

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and be like gorgeous and everybody’s like, oh my god, like just like two seconds later

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would be like, no, it was like, it was almost like she was a cat in some ways, too, like

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the way that she would like slip and they would like, yeah.

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And so it’s like these, it’s like four or five dudes who have to like help her, like,

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you know, lady.

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Yeah.

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And they like are also hilarious and like have this.

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I don’t know.

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It was it was a time and I was really into it for like, for that time.

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Yeah, I was really also also and as well into it.

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I think you can see it like in the anime I’m even interested in like later.

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It definitely in four of my days, like I feel like it was a pivotal.

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Like, you know, you have these, I feel like tent pole media that you take in as you develop

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and they inform from then on, like the rest of your media choices.

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Weirdly, I feel like the wallflower like is one of those for me where I was like, yeah.

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And I don’t even know how we ended up like, I think I like found one of the books like

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in my maybe I was like cleaning my at one point I was like giving away a bunch of books.

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I think I just found it.

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And I don’t know why I sent it to you because like I wasn’t like I knew at the time that

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you had been into it.

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Yeah, I don’t remember how it came up either.

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But maybe because we’re like similar age, I think I was just like, of everyone, of all

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our homies, I feel like Delia is gonna feel me right now.

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And I did I was so shook because I even when you brought it up, I don’t think I thought

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about it like, yeah, it’s just one of those things like maybe like casually in my head,

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I’d reference just to myself because the way Sonoko like experiences well, that’s not how

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she puts it but I take the way she seems to experience attraction like she just talked

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about how too beautiful everybody is and like they’re too bright and like, she has to shield

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herself from that.

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That’s how I feel like I very much when I see attractive people, it’s not like lust

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or anything.

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I’m just like, Whoa, okay, you’re doing way too much.

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Please tone it down when I need you to stop.

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Relax.

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Relax.

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You didn’t have to do all that.

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And I’ve always related to that.

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So in the back of my head, she comes up actually kind of a lot because when I have those feelings,

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I can just picture her.

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Yeah.

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Trying to like scramble away from the bright creatures.

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Yeah, it was it was such a it was such a time.

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I think the anime like the first season is on Hulu, but it’s only dubbed and I support

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voice actors.

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I support people who find dubbed more accessible.

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It’s just not for me.

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And so yeah, unfortunately, I will have to pass on that one.

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I like have it on my like in my stuff or whatever, just in case one day I decide like I can do

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it, I’m gonna try but that that day has not yet come.

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Yeah, maybe that would be more I don’t know.

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Well, maybe one day maybe I’ll just want to see some certain scenes and I’ll and I’ll

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try it out.

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But yeah, there’s like this other manga and I this one I do not remember what it was called

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was like this dude who was like trying to help this girl they like went to school together

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like help her get a boyfriend or whatever.

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And then like in the process, they start dating.

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And then then it’s just about their relationship or whatever.

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It was very cute.

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I swear like I can see it in my head, but I could not tell you what it was called.

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I did this the other day.

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I was recording with Sailor Moon fan club.

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And while we were talking, I didn’t bring it up because I was like there was a magical

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girl anime that I watched, even though I didn’t like those types of anime at the time because

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I wasn’t hair flip like other girls.

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But one snuck in and I really liked it.

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And it had a black character who was super problematic, honestly, but I still it was

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like a black character in an anime who was a girl.

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So I was still all about it.

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And I couldn’t remember.

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But after I recorded that episode, I was scrolling and scrolling and scrolling trying to find

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just going through lists.

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And then the name just came to me out of nowhere.

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And I found it, which was exciting.

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And it looks just as problematic as I remember.

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So that’s lovely.

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Yeah, I’m like, I haven’t thought too deeply about it.

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I’m sure if I tried to like look like something similar would probably happen.

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But it’s been so long that it’s like, it occasionally pops in my head like, oh, yeah, I did read

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that.

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But yeah, the memory of childhood.

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The further it gets, the more I’m like, huh, there’s whole books I’ve read that I don’t

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even know about.

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I couldn’t even tell you.

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Never thought there’d be a time.

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That’s so wild to me.

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Yeah.

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We’ve talked about, I know, that you kind of had a different experience of like taking

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in media growing up than I think maybe a lot of audience members.

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I don’t know.

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Definitely than our friend in our friend group.

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And so I do wonder how that influenced how you experience fan spaces and how did you

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experience fan spaces around the media that we’re talking about?

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I mean, I’m very insular, like very on my own about it, like didn’t really think about

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like for one, I didn’t watch a lot of anime.

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And that wasn’t like part of it was because like we had like we didn’t watch TV during

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the week, like we really can only watch it on the weekends.

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So a lot of it I was reading.

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And then on top of that, like I wasn’t on the internet like that.

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And so most of it was just me or like I mentioned my brother like if it was when when it was

213
00:10:31,720 –> 00:10:35,840
Naruto it was like I was talking to my brother and then our two god brothers and it was like

214
00:10:35,840 –> 00:10:41,040
the four of us and occasionally we’d be like, oh, yo, did you like read up to this or whatever?

215
00:10:41,040 –> 00:10:44,440
And like, I also am somebody who’s very like I’m impatient.

216
00:10:44,440 –> 00:10:51,080
So like, I have I had tried to or like had watched Naruto a few times at that time, but

217
00:10:51,080 –> 00:10:56,160
because it wasn’t like caught up to the manga, I was like, okay, well, we’ll come back to

218
00:10:56,160 –> 00:10:57,160
this later.

219
00:10:57,160 –> 00:11:01,080
I’m like, now I’m like, I’m just gonna watch the anime, like I don’t have the time to be

220
00:11:01,080 –> 00:11:03,480
sitting up reading all them chapters and stuff.

221
00:11:03,480 –> 00:11:07,240
But like, yeah, a lot of it was just like, I’m reading it on my own, like a friend might

222
00:11:07,240 –> 00:11:12,400
recommend something to me and then I go off on my own or like, occasionally talking but

223
00:11:12,400 –> 00:11:17,600
it was very like, and it’s also probably why I didn’t get in like, like way deeper.

224
00:11:17,600 –> 00:11:22,840
It’s like not like I had internet homies or other friends who I was talking to about it.

225
00:11:22,840 –> 00:11:27,280
So it was like, I think I watched Pokemon when I was like six watched it for like, I

226
00:11:27,280 –> 00:11:28,840
was obsessed with it for like a year or two.

227
00:11:28,840 –> 00:11:34,600
But my parents, they remember all types of Pokemon that I don’t remember because I like

228
00:11:34,600 –> 00:11:36,400
fell off of it so quick.

229
00:11:36,400 –> 00:11:42,280
Like, so they were, you know, grown so they’re like, oh, that that era or whatever.

230
00:11:42,280 –> 00:11:48,400
But like, yeah, so it was just like, it was very like just me by myself chilling.

231
00:11:48,400 –> 00:11:52,480
If you could go back in time, is there a fandom space you would have liked to engage with

232
00:11:52,480 –> 00:11:53,480
more?

233
00:11:53,480 –> 00:11:54,480
Or were you even aware of them?

234
00:11:54,480 –> 00:11:55,480
I guess maybe that’s the first question.

235
00:11:55,480 –> 00:11:58,560
Yeah, I don’t know that I was even I mean, I guess I was like I knew about Dragon Ball

236
00:11:58,560 –> 00:11:59,560
Z.

237
00:11:59,560 –> 00:12:01,280
Because you know, like Toonami was still a thing.

238
00:12:01,280 –> 00:12:03,360
It’s not like I completely missed that.

239
00:12:03,360 –> 00:12:07,160
I think if I knew more folks who are into it, I probably would have gotten into Dragon

240
00:12:07,160 –> 00:12:08,160
Ball Z.

241
00:12:08,160 –> 00:12:09,160
I maybe would have stayed in Pokemon.

242
00:12:09,160 –> 00:12:14,960
I maybe would have like started One Piece or Bleach back when they were, you know, younger.

243
00:12:14,960 –> 00:12:23,000
I was talking to my sister because we’ve been just kind of talking about I’m like, maybe

244
00:12:23,000 –> 00:12:26,760
she’ll get me to actually watch more anime because she’s super into it and wants to do

245
00:12:26,760 –> 00:12:27,760
more.

246
00:12:27,760 –> 00:12:31,400
And she was like, I guess somebody had mentioned One Piece to her and I was like, yeah, but

247
00:12:31,400 –> 00:12:34,400
that’s like more than One Piece.

248
00:12:34,400 –> 00:12:37,920
She was like, yeah, I don’t think we should do that.

249
00:12:37,920 –> 00:12:41,520
I was like, we’ve already done Naruto and that’s like a thousand episodes.

250
00:12:41,520 –> 00:12:45,080
So I don’t know if we want to do that again right off the bat.

251
00:12:45,080 –> 00:12:49,080
But yeah, so I think that I probably just would have like I was aware of those things,

252
00:12:49,080 –> 00:12:51,120
but I just didn’t get all the way in.

253
00:12:51,120 –> 00:12:53,200
And so maybe I would have.

254
00:12:53,200 –> 00:12:56,240
What are your because we’re talking about you Pokemon fell off, you might have gotten

255
00:12:56,240 –> 00:12:57,440
into these are things.

256
00:12:57,440 –> 00:13:00,640
What would you consider your current active fandoms or things you’re into?

257
00:13:00,640 –> 00:13:04,200
Oh, yeah, Nars, especially because I’m like watching it now.

258
00:13:04,200 –> 00:13:07,640
Lord of the Rings Avatar, which I guess counts.

259
00:13:07,640 –> 00:13:10,240
I guess I can also.

260
00:13:10,240 –> 00:13:13,200
Okay, before we get an avatar, the boondocks.

261
00:13:13,200 –> 00:13:14,760
Oh, so true.

262
00:13:14,760 –> 00:13:20,600
So true because so I growing up my dad had the I think I actually still have a few of

263
00:13:20,600 –> 00:13:22,160
the comic books and which everyone’s I don’t have.

264
00:13:22,160 –> 00:13:23,840
He probably does like he was reading them.

265
00:13:23,840 –> 00:13:25,920
And so, you know, you just find things.

266
00:13:25,920 –> 00:13:27,920
He allowed me to read them.

267
00:13:27,920 –> 00:13:30,920
So I read them like you know, he wasn’t like this is inappropriate.

268
00:13:30,920 –> 00:13:33,240
I think by the time I got to them, it was fine.

269
00:13:33,240 –> 00:13:34,640
And then the show came out when I was in high school.

270
00:13:34,640 –> 00:13:36,160
So we would watch it together.

271
00:13:36,160 –> 00:13:41,120
And like, they’re definitely there’s one fight scene that is like, word for word bar for

272
00:13:41,120 –> 00:13:42,120
bar.

273
00:13:42,120 –> 00:13:47,160
Arochi Maru when he’s fighting Sasuke like the first time when they’re in the forest

274
00:13:47,160 –> 00:13:48,160
of death.

275
00:13:48,160 –> 00:13:51,800
There’s like they’ve done like I’ve seen like videos where they put them side by side and

276
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:53,160
like the choreography is the same.

277
00:13:53,160 –> 00:13:54,160
I didn’t know that.

278
00:13:54,160 –> 00:13:55,160
Yeah.

279
00:13:55,160 –> 00:13:56,160
And then like it’s tight to watch.

280
00:13:56,160 –> 00:13:58,080
It’s like, oh, OK.

281
00:13:58,080 –> 00:14:02,600
There’s this kickball episode of the Boondocks that’s like straight up anime.

282
00:14:02,600 –> 00:14:06,600
It’s I mean, like the animation obviously is but like the right but just the way that

283
00:14:06,600 –> 00:14:11,120
they style and style it like it’s super and I haven’t seen that in a it’s been a minute

284
00:14:11,120 –> 00:14:12,440
since I’ve watched the Boondocks.

285
00:14:12,440 –> 00:14:13,880
But yeah, I was super into that.

286
00:14:13,880 –> 00:14:18,840
Like as a kid through like high school and then Avatar.

287
00:14:18,840 –> 00:14:20,720
Avatar is such a big one.

288
00:14:20,720 –> 00:14:23,960
I thought that’s absolutely a current fan for me.

289
00:14:23,960 –> 00:14:25,280
Yeah, past fandom, current fandom.

290
00:14:25,280 –> 00:14:30,600
The thing is when it was airing, like I liked it, but it wasn’t as encompassing.

291
00:14:30,600 –> 00:14:31,600
I wouldn’t say no.

292
00:14:31,600 –> 00:14:34,080
But I also think it’s the way that it came out.

293
00:14:34,080 –> 00:14:39,200
Like it was, you know, it was on Nickelodeon and like I don’t even remember how shows

294
00:14:39,200 –> 00:14:40,200
came out at the time.

295
00:14:40,200 –> 00:14:43,640
We were just getting like DVR as a thing.

296
00:14:43,640 –> 00:14:46,720
And like if you missed an episode, you missed it.

297
00:14:46,720 –> 00:14:50,920
I would watch it with my siblings and stuff and like we were into it, but it definitely

298
00:14:50,920 –> 00:14:53,240
wasn’t like I saw it from beginning to end.

299
00:14:53,240 –> 00:14:56,400
But I knew I had missed some stuff in the middle and like, oh for sure.

300
00:14:56,400 –> 00:14:59,760
And was coming, you know, at that point you have to be okay with it.

301
00:14:59,760 –> 00:15:01,080
Now you can be upset about that.

302
00:15:01,080 –> 00:15:03,040
But like back then you just, it is what it is.

303
00:15:03,040 –> 00:15:04,680
And so people really don’t remember.

304
00:15:04,680 –> 00:15:06,400
You really had to just roll with the punches.

305
00:15:06,400 –> 00:15:07,400
Yeah.

306
00:15:07,400 –> 00:15:13,040
Then you just had to catch, you would catch a marathon for random like Saturday morning

307
00:15:13,040 –> 00:15:17,840
or you know, they’d play like three episodes in a row, but none of them were in order.

308
00:15:17,840 –> 00:15:21,480
And you’re just like, okay, guess that’s what we’re watching for now.

309
00:15:21,480 –> 00:15:25,080
And then you’re also going back and forth between because commercials happen.

310
00:15:25,080 –> 00:15:28,760
So now you’re like, okay, I’m a split between watching that and like something on Disney

311
00:15:28,760 –> 00:15:29,760
channel.

312
00:15:29,760 –> 00:15:32,640
It’s so interesting to me though, cause like I also definitely saw the matter of order.

313
00:15:32,640 –> 00:15:39,200
I specifically, specifically remember seeing the scene in the crystal caverns and I’m like,

314
00:15:39,200 –> 00:15:40,200
oh, okay.

315
00:15:40,200 –> 00:15:42,400
So Zuko and Katara are going to get together.

316
00:15:42,400 –> 00:15:43,400
This makes sense to me.

317
00:15:43,400 –> 00:15:44,400
This tracks, okay.

318
00:15:44,400 –> 00:15:48,240
And then I missed some episodes and then like that apparently had not played out and it

319
00:15:48,240 –> 00:15:52,360
was looking very clear that she was going like towards Aang and I was like, wait, what?

320
00:15:52,360 –> 00:15:53,360
I’m sorry.

321
00:15:53,360 –> 00:15:55,520
And I had to, I specifically set out.

322
00:15:55,520 –> 00:15:58,760
I’m like the next marathon, I’m going to be out here because I need this.

323
00:15:58,760 –> 00:16:01,040
Like I need to know what’s happening here.

324
00:16:01,040 –> 00:16:02,040
Because it’s not making sense.

325
00:16:02,040 –> 00:16:03,040
Yeah.

326
00:16:03,040 –> 00:16:04,160
Adding up this can’t be correct.

327
00:16:04,160 –> 00:16:05,160
It was correct.

328
00:16:05,160 –> 00:16:06,160
It was unfortunately.

329
00:16:06,160 –> 00:16:07,160
Hate that for us.

330
00:16:07,160 –> 00:16:08,160
I really hate that for us.

331
00:16:08,160 –> 00:16:13,720
I mean, I hate it and I don’t because if it had happened, then we wouldn’t have the breadth

332
00:16:13,720 –> 00:16:15,040
of fan fiction that we do have.

333
00:16:15,040 –> 00:16:16,040
That is so true.

334
00:16:16,040 –> 00:16:17,400
There’s, you know, silver linings.

335
00:16:17,400 –> 00:16:20,880
But yeah, I definitely like when I watched it the first time, I didn’t think so much

336
00:16:20,880 –> 00:16:21,880
about shipping.

337
00:16:21,880 –> 00:16:25,280
Like I think they made it pretty obvious that like they wanted Aang and Katara to get together.

338
00:16:25,280 –> 00:16:29,160
And at the time I was not like, I was just like, okay, whatever.

339
00:16:29,160 –> 00:16:30,760
Like I didn’t think too deeply about it.

340
00:16:30,760 –> 00:16:32,160
I was like, we’re in here, whatever.

341
00:16:32,160 –> 00:16:33,520
But then I watched it.

342
00:16:33,520 –> 00:16:34,520
I don’t know.

343
00:16:34,520 –> 00:16:38,480
At some point it got on streaming and like maybe in the last like five or six years or

344
00:16:38,480 –> 00:16:39,480
so.

345
00:16:39,480 –> 00:16:42,680
And so I was like, oh, like, okay, I’m going to watch, finally watch it from beginning

346
00:16:42,680 –> 00:16:43,680
to end.

347
00:16:43,680 –> 00:16:44,680
Because like, you know, I saw the finale.

348
00:16:44,680 –> 00:16:45,680
Everybody saw the finale.

349
00:16:45,680 –> 00:16:49,000
Like I didn’t, I was like, I know there are parts that I am missing or like it’s been

350
00:16:49,000 –> 00:16:50,360
a minute and I don’t remember.

351
00:16:50,360 –> 00:16:54,760
And from jump, I was just like, oh, Zuko and Katara definitely go together.

352
00:16:54,760 –> 00:16:59,160
And so I was just watching it and like knowing how it ends, but it was just like being able

353
00:16:59,160 –> 00:17:02,480
to watch it in order you kind of, you see the art.

354
00:17:02,480 –> 00:17:05,000
And I was just like, yo, this is mad obvious.

355
00:17:05,000 –> 00:17:08,000
Like, how did this happen?

356
00:17:08,000 –> 00:17:10,000
Like it’s not subtle at all.

357
00:17:10,000 –> 00:17:14,760
And so it’s, and I was like, you know, watching it as an adult, but still just being like,

358
00:17:14,760 –> 00:17:15,760
oh, that’s crazy.

359
00:17:15,760 –> 00:17:17,720
Cause I just didn’t pick up on it as a kid.

360
00:17:17,720 –> 00:17:19,040
I just wasn’t paying attention like that.

361
00:17:19,040 –> 00:17:20,040
Yeah.

362
00:17:20,040 –> 00:17:23,880
I mean, that’s also like why I haven’t seen Cora is I like aged out at the time.

363
00:17:23,880 –> 00:17:25,360
Like obviously now it’s like streaming.

364
00:17:25,360 –> 00:17:27,880
It’s different in terms of like, there’s like, you can watch what you want.

365
00:17:27,880 –> 00:17:32,080
Like at some point I will watch Cora, but like at the time that it came out, like I’m

366
00:17:32,080 –> 00:17:35,360
like moving into college, like my siblings are watching it.

367
00:17:35,360 –> 00:17:38,600
So I’m like peeking in and I’m seeing that they’re watching it, but I’m not like paying

368
00:17:38,600 –> 00:17:39,600
attention.

369
00:17:39,600 –> 00:17:40,600
And so yeah, there’s that too.

370
00:17:40,600 –> 00:17:41,600
Like I ended up missing that.

371
00:17:41,600 –> 00:17:42,600
Yeah.

372
00:17:42,600 –> 00:17:43,920
I hadn’t thought about it because I could never was really sure why I didn’t.

373
00:17:43,920 –> 00:17:44,920
I watched Cora.

374
00:17:44,920 –> 00:17:45,920
I just knew that it didn’t, but you’re right.

375
00:17:45,920 –> 00:17:46,920
It was right at that.

376
00:17:46,920 –> 00:17:48,360
Like, again, it was different back then.

377
00:17:48,360 –> 00:17:49,360
You just aged out of things.

378
00:17:49,360 –> 00:17:52,440
Like there are people who would still go back to Nickelodeon, but once you age it out, like

379
00:17:52,440 –> 00:17:54,760
I’m not sitting through Nickelodeon programming or Disney channel.

380
00:17:54,760 –> 00:17:56,360
I was like, I’m not watching Nickelodeon.

381
00:17:56,360 –> 00:17:57,360
I’m not watching Disney channel.

382
00:17:57,360 –> 00:17:59,360
You’re not going to catch me watching Wizards of Wicked.

383
00:17:59,360 –> 00:18:01,640
Even if I wanted to watch that specific show.

384
00:18:01,640 –> 00:18:02,640
Right.

385
00:18:02,640 –> 00:18:06,200
And I’m like my, you know, I had younger siblings, so they were watching it.

386
00:18:06,200 –> 00:18:10,120
So it’s not like I wasn’t aware of it and the fact that it existed.

387
00:18:10,120 –> 00:18:13,800
But if they’re sitting down watching it, I’m not like, Ooh, like scoot over.

388
00:18:13,800 –> 00:18:18,360
I’m like, okay, I’m going to go read or I’m going to go do whatever it was I was doing.

389
00:18:18,360 –> 00:18:22,080
I think it’s really interesting that this was like an experience that you and your siblings

390
00:18:22,080 –> 00:18:25,840
share, not just with Avatar, but in general being into this type of media.

391
00:18:25,840 –> 00:18:27,600
And I just find it so fascinating.

392
00:18:27,600 –> 00:18:32,120
That’s why I made a podcast about why, like what is it?

393
00:18:32,120 –> 00:18:33,600
I really can’t figure it out.

394
00:18:33,600 –> 00:18:37,880
Why do these stories that are not written with us in mind or I mean, well, in the boondocks

395
00:18:37,880 –> 00:18:39,440
yesterday, we were in mind.

396
00:18:39,440 –> 00:18:45,200
But in general, like Asian pop culture and I guess in the case of Avatar, Asian inspired

397
00:18:45,200 –> 00:18:49,440
pop culture really, because that was too white man.

398
00:18:49,440 –> 00:18:50,960
Like why does it resonate?

399
00:18:50,960 –> 00:18:52,280
What is it about these stories?

400
00:18:52,280 –> 00:18:56,200
Like that resonates with us so much or intrigues us so much.

401
00:18:56,200 –> 00:19:00,120
And I’ve talked to quite a few people thus far in preparation for this podcast, because

402
00:19:00,120 –> 00:19:03,960
spoiler recording before this comes out, but I don’t have an answer.

403
00:19:03,960 –> 00:19:06,840
So like, what do you think it was is for you personally?

404
00:19:06,840 –> 00:19:09,880
And if you want to speak to your siblings as well and like how it was in your household.

405
00:19:09,880 –> 00:19:10,880
Yeah, I don’t know.

406
00:19:10,880 –> 00:19:17,920
I feel like part of it was on a broader level, like we’re all like into fantasy and like

407
00:19:17,920 –> 00:19:21,880
sci fi and that kind of thing and like action stuff like our dad was into it.

408
00:19:21,880 –> 00:19:24,240
So he got us into like those genres.

409
00:19:24,240 –> 00:19:28,520
And so, you know, to Nami’s coming on, I’m not like, like, I’m gonna see what’s going

410
00:19:28,520 –> 00:19:29,920
on, you know, I’m gonna check it out.

411
00:19:29,920 –> 00:19:30,920
I’m like interested.

412
00:19:30,920 –> 00:19:35,200
And so I think on the surface, it’s just like, you know, there’s fighting.

413
00:19:35,200 –> 00:19:36,200
That’s cool.

414
00:19:36,200 –> 00:19:37,200
I’m gonna watch it.

415
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:42,560
But also, I think like, as you get in, it’s like these, you know, talking about Naruto

416
00:19:42,560 –> 00:19:47,440
specifically like these bonds and like communities and like all this stuff.

417
00:19:47,440 –> 00:19:52,360
Like my, when I was in high school, my brother and I, it mostly ended up being me, but like

418
00:19:52,360 –> 00:19:56,960
we wrote this like very obviously Naruto inspired like story.

419
00:19:56,960 –> 00:19:59,840
I don’t think we finished it, but there was black people and they were ninjas and they

420
00:19:59,840 –> 00:20:01,160
were like doing, you know what I mean?

421
00:20:01,160 –> 00:20:04,560
Like it just, I don’t know, something about it was just fun.

422
00:20:04,560 –> 00:20:06,520
And the stories are so well plot out.

423
00:20:06,520 –> 00:20:07,520
Also like they’re long.

424
00:20:07,520 –> 00:20:10,960
I mean, obviously not all anime is long, but Naruto is long as hell.

425
00:20:10,960 –> 00:20:15,120
And so it’s one of those things where like other books are reading other shows, like

426
00:20:15,120 –> 00:20:16,880
eventually they’re done.

427
00:20:16,880 –> 00:20:21,040
But I read Naruto from when I was like, I said like nine or 10.

428
00:20:21,040 –> 00:20:23,800
The final chapter didn’t come out until my senior year of college.

429
00:20:23,800 –> 00:20:28,400
And I literally read it not to, you know, out myself, but like in class.

430
00:20:28,400 –> 00:20:31,960
I was just like, I was feeling a lot of feelings.

431
00:20:31,960 –> 00:20:33,360
I was like, I have to read it now.

432
00:20:33,360 –> 00:20:34,360
It just dropped.

433
00:20:34,360 –> 00:20:35,360
I was like, I’m gonna read it now.

434
00:20:35,360 –> 00:20:40,920
So like that’s a long time to like be into a thing and to like, you know, like connect

435
00:20:40,920 –> 00:20:43,080
with those characters and you know, all of that.

436
00:20:43,080 –> 00:20:48,440
So I think it’s that too, is just giving folks time to be in that world and to like

437
00:20:48,440 –> 00:20:49,760
be into it.

438
00:20:49,760 –> 00:20:53,480
I don’t know if I could say like specifically, I just think like with me and my brother,

439
00:20:53,480 –> 00:20:54,480
we just were into the same things.

440
00:20:54,480 –> 00:20:57,720
And then my sister was like, you know, a few years younger than him.

441
00:20:57,720 –> 00:21:00,160
And so she would just kind of follow us.

442
00:21:00,160 –> 00:21:03,080
She was like, oh, you guys talking about this?

443
00:21:03,080 –> 00:21:04,920
I want to know.

444
00:21:04,920 –> 00:21:05,920
I want to be in this conversation.

445
00:21:05,920 –> 00:21:07,920
And we’re like, did you even read it?

446
00:21:07,920 –> 00:21:08,920
And she’s like, yes.

447
00:21:08,920 –> 00:21:10,960
And we’re like, you’re five.

448
00:21:10,960 –> 00:21:11,960
You didn’t.

449
00:21:11,960 –> 00:21:14,600
Like go away.

450
00:21:14,600 –> 00:21:18,540
So it’s just like, I also wonder if it’s something because you had said earlier how you love

451
00:21:18,540 –> 00:21:24,480
the themes like anime in general, but I wonder if I think there’s something to be said, you

452
00:21:24,480 –> 00:21:28,000
know, now we’re also with the Hallyu, which is, you know, the Korean wave, we’re seeing

453
00:21:28,000 –> 00:21:32,540
a lot more Korean media take over here and in general seeing more representation across

454
00:21:32,540 –> 00:21:37,720
the board, not just of Asian stories in America, but you know, in general, I do wonder if because

455
00:21:37,720 –> 00:21:43,000
of the cultural differences, like in other countries, they’re able to cover themes and

456
00:21:43,000 –> 00:21:48,520
stories that American media, big American media, like the big wigs just don’t want to

457
00:21:48,520 –> 00:21:50,560
even explore because it’s not going to make money.

458
00:21:50,560 –> 00:21:54,640
And so we go look elsewhere to find our people and see ourselves.

459
00:21:54,640 –> 00:21:55,640
Absolutely.

460
00:21:55,640 –> 00:22:01,120
They make the same thing every they are like on a 20 year cycle and just like, you’re making

461
00:22:01,120 –> 00:22:07,200
the same shit, the same like, reboot of this and like the same buddy top formula and whatever

462
00:22:07,200 –> 00:22:11,720
and like those things work sure, but like, it’s not exciting at a certain point.

463
00:22:11,720 –> 00:22:13,200
Like it’s we all know what it’s going to be.

464
00:22:13,200 –> 00:22:18,560
We’ve seen it 1000 times like, cool, but getting to like, I guess experience and like look

465
00:22:18,560 –> 00:22:24,560
at other forms of like, also just like story structure and like the themes, yes, but also

466
00:22:24,560 –> 00:22:29,540
like, you know, they’re created in different ways and just like different perspectives

467
00:22:29,540 –> 00:22:35,120
and to be able to get into that at a younger age is like tight because then you see then

468
00:22:35,120 –> 00:22:39,440
you’re like, cool, what else can I do or like it just changes your perspective a bit.

469
00:22:39,440 –> 00:22:44,880
Yeah, sometimes you do just have to look elsewhere because they’re not doing they’re not doing

470
00:22:44,880 –> 00:22:47,260
what needs to be done all the time.

471
00:22:47,260 –> 00:22:48,260
Sometimes they are.

472
00:22:48,260 –> 00:22:52,560
But yeah, they get they get in there sometimes with other times.

473
00:22:52,560 –> 00:22:55,560
Every now and then, bro, I’ve seen this before.

474
00:22:55,560 –> 00:22:57,920
Yeah, the formulas weren’t enough.

475
00:22:57,920 –> 00:22:59,840
Now it’s just reboot culture all the time.

476
00:22:59,840 –> 00:23:01,200
We’re just going to reboot things.

477
00:23:01,200 –> 00:23:02,640
The cycle is going to get smaller and smaller.

478
00:23:02,640 –> 00:23:05,960
You’re going to have to always specify which version of the movie is your favorite because

479
00:23:05,960 –> 00:23:10,700
there will be three of each and it’s going to be too much.

480
00:23:10,700 –> 00:23:14,880
You got me thinking about because you were talking about how we get to learn from these

481
00:23:14,880 –> 00:23:21,200
like more complex themes at a younger age through some of this Asian media and pop culture,

482
00:23:21,200 –> 00:23:26,240
speaking of anime specifically, but I think of all the like young black boys specifically,

483
00:23:26,240 –> 00:23:29,220
stay with me, who are into anime.

484
00:23:29,220 –> 00:23:33,000
And it’s not something I thought about because I wasn’t raised or socialized as a black

485
00:23:33,000 –> 00:23:34,000
boy.

486
00:23:34,000 –> 00:23:35,000
So I don’t know what that’s like.

487
00:23:35,000 –> 00:23:40,400
But I think of how we talk about in our culture of that black men specifically need better

488
00:23:40,400 –> 00:23:41,780
outlets for their emotions.

489
00:23:41,780 –> 00:23:46,040
We’re not giving that to them a lot because of like the societal structures and gender

490
00:23:46,040 –> 00:23:49,240
norms we put on to people, all of us.

491
00:23:49,240 –> 00:23:51,200
And I hadn’t thought about it.

492
00:23:51,200 –> 00:23:57,600
But getting into anime, like anime plays with the idea of masculinity so much.

493
00:23:57,600 –> 00:24:02,760
Like yes, there’s very masculine characters, but they’re experiencing bonds and emotions

494
00:24:02,760 –> 00:24:06,560
and like deep friendships and learning to care for people.

495
00:24:06,560 –> 00:24:12,560
And I mean, it might be through fighting, but it’s still right.

496
00:24:12,560 –> 00:24:16,240
With each punch, I love you more.

497
00:24:16,240 –> 00:24:20,360
You might lose an arm, but your blood’s going to hold hands about it.

498
00:24:20,360 –> 00:24:27,040
So like, it’s not, you know, it’s a bit violent sometimes, but still it’s like delving into

499
00:24:27,040 –> 00:24:30,600
that emotionality that I think is super invaluable.

500
00:24:30,600 –> 00:24:34,880
And I would like to talk to someone and impact that more now that I’m thinking about it.

501
00:24:34,880 –> 00:24:37,600
So yeah, you know, listeners, if you if you know someone.

502
00:24:37,600 –> 00:24:42,840
Yeah, I mean, like I said, like I was not, I grew up in a community where like, I have

503
00:24:42,840 –> 00:24:47,700
a lot of friends that I’ve known since I was born, essentially, of that group of people,

504
00:24:47,700 –> 00:24:52,260
the people who I watched this and talked about this stuff with were all black boys.

505
00:24:52,260 –> 00:24:56,120
Like it wasn’t like none of my other friends were like, oh, you’re watching Naruto, what’s

506
00:24:56,120 –> 00:24:57,120
up?

507
00:24:57,120 –> 00:24:58,120
I was like, they were just like, oh, cool.

508
00:24:58,120 –> 00:24:59,120
I love that for you.

509
00:24:59,120 –> 00:25:08,080
Yeah, it really speaks to me to a need to me that like, we’re not verbally expressing,

510
00:25:08,080 –> 00:25:10,720
but maybe that’s also why we keep coming to this media.

511
00:25:10,720 –> 00:25:14,520
There’s a need not being met, maybe even developmentally, because we’re coming to this stuff young

512
00:25:14,520 –> 00:25:20,120
and we’re finding it elsewhere in cultures that aren’t afraid to talk about at least

513
00:25:20,120 –> 00:25:21,120
these things.

514
00:25:21,120 –> 00:25:22,120
No culture is perfect.

515
00:25:22,120 –> 00:25:26,040
I sure because, you know, homophobia be rampant in other places.

516
00:25:26,040 –> 00:25:27,720
So like, don’t get me wrong.

517
00:25:27,720 –> 00:25:28,720
It’s not perfect over there.

518
00:25:28,720 –> 00:25:34,920
But that’s so speaking of learning new themes at a younger age, I am curious if y’all didn’t

519
00:25:34,920 –> 00:25:39,080
know, I said it up top, but let me reiterate that by on it is a writer that is that is

520
00:25:39,080 –> 00:25:40,080
true.

521
00:25:40,080 –> 00:25:41,080
That is so true.

522
00:25:41,080 –> 00:25:42,080
Very, very true.

523
00:25:42,080 –> 00:25:45,040
Can’t wait to read her books on shelves one day.

524
00:25:45,040 –> 00:25:50,240
Until then, I’m curious how these fandoms have inspired your real life works, which

525
00:25:50,240 –> 00:25:51,240
you kind of touched on it.

526
00:25:51,240 –> 00:25:55,880
You did write some stuff with your brother, but in your more recent works that I’m privy

527
00:25:55,880 –> 00:25:58,360
to know about, but others are not.

528
00:25:58,360 –> 00:26:00,720
Yeah, I first of all love siblings.

529
00:26:00,720 –> 00:26:02,840
I have five of them.

530
00:26:02,840 –> 00:26:07,240
And so grew up with just two and like the three of us are around the same age now.

531
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:09,040
We’re very close and all of that.

532
00:26:09,040 –> 00:26:11,720
But we also have all the things that come with being siblings.

533
00:26:11,720 –> 00:26:13,640
So some of that stuff is they’re annoying.

534
00:26:13,640 –> 00:26:15,960
They need to stay out my closet, you know?

535
00:26:15,960 –> 00:26:20,600
So that being said, Sasuke on his own, I feel like everybody needs to relax.

536
00:26:20,600 –> 00:26:21,600
He’s not that cool.

537
00:26:21,600 –> 00:26:22,600
They need like, chill.

538
00:26:22,600 –> 00:26:23,600
Sasuke and Itachi.

539
00:26:23,600 –> 00:26:26,600
You have the floor, go ahead.

540
00:26:26,600 –> 00:26:27,600
My heart.

541
00:26:27,600 –> 00:26:29,600
What is it that Michael Scott said in the office?

542
00:26:29,600 –> 00:26:31,480
Like my heart goes with the Eagles nest.

543
00:26:31,480 –> 00:26:35,560
Like that’s how I feel.

544
00:26:35,560 –> 00:26:41,920
Like I have like so many feelings about these two brothers and sometimes it will just appear

545
00:26:41,920 –> 00:26:42,920
in my brain.

546
00:26:42,920 –> 00:26:43,920
I’ll be minding my business.

547
00:26:43,920 –> 00:26:45,520
And then I’m like, wow, but they are Chihap brothers.

548
00:26:45,520 –> 00:26:47,220
And like, they went through so much.

549
00:26:47,220 –> 00:26:53,080
So like their like relationship really like has inspired me for what’s funny is that I

550
00:26:53,080 –> 00:26:56,060
had an idea and I was like, oh, I’m going to like throw that in there.

551
00:26:56,060 –> 00:27:00,440
And then I have a different idea and I was like, oh, maybe I’ll just pull.

552
00:27:00,440 –> 00:27:01,440
Who knows?

553
00:27:01,440 –> 00:27:02,440
Maybe I’ll do it twice.

554
00:27:02,440 –> 00:27:04,840
Who can, who’s going to stop me?

555
00:27:04,840 –> 00:27:05,840
Not I.

556
00:27:05,840 –> 00:27:06,840
Right.

557
00:27:06,840 –> 00:27:12,760
So I think like that just that relationship in general and just like the ways that like

558
00:27:12,760 –> 00:27:18,560
relationships can be different things to different people and also like can be manipulated into

559
00:27:18,560 –> 00:27:20,720
one thing and then you find out it’s in everything.

560
00:27:20,720 –> 00:27:22,080
Like it’s just so many different things.

561
00:27:22,080 –> 00:27:26,120
There’s so many different like themes and feelings within that.

562
00:27:26,120 –> 00:27:32,120
So I would say them primarily definitely inspires me because I like pain and.

563
00:27:32,120 –> 00:27:34,000
The character or in general?

564
00:27:34,000 –> 00:27:35,000
Both.

565
00:27:35,000 –> 00:27:39,440
I feel like that’s the one that like is in my head the most like recently.

566
00:27:39,440 –> 00:27:42,200
I’m sure there are going to be other things that pop up.

567
00:27:42,200 –> 00:27:45,960
Like there’s no way it’s not, but that’s definitely been on my mind most recently.

568
00:27:45,960 –> 00:27:46,960
So look out for that.

569
00:27:46,960 –> 00:27:47,960
Most recently slash always.

570
00:27:47,960 –> 00:27:50,960
Love slash hate that for me.

571
00:27:50,960 –> 00:27:51,960
Great.

572
00:27:51,960 –> 00:27:53,760
I love angst also.

573
00:27:53,760 –> 00:27:55,360
Both Diana and I love angst.

574
00:27:55,360 –> 00:27:58,360
I don’t like it when she perpetrates it unto me though.

575
00:27:58,360 –> 00:27:59,360
That’s.

576
00:27:59,360 –> 00:28:04,640
Honestly, the best thing about writing is when you are writing something that’s like

577
00:28:04,640 –> 00:28:09,160
very heart wrenching and you’re just like, ooh, about to get them with this one.

578
00:28:09,160 –> 00:28:10,160
Like honestly.

579
00:28:10,160 –> 00:28:17,280
Like I know that some people like really feel like not that I don’t feel deeply, but you

580
00:28:17,280 –> 00:28:21,360
know, like they feel deeply and they like cry when they write certain passages and they’re

581
00:28:21,360 –> 00:28:24,880
like, I just feel so bad for doing this to my readers.

582
00:28:24,880 –> 00:28:26,640
And I’m literally over here.

583
00:28:26,640 –> 00:28:28,440
You know, the like purple devil emoji.

584
00:28:28,440 –> 00:28:30,080
Like that’s me when I write those things.

585
00:28:30,080 –> 00:28:31,520
So you can yell at me.

586
00:28:31,520 –> 00:28:32,520
It’s fine.

587
00:28:32,520 –> 00:28:33,520
I will just continue to laugh.

588
00:28:33,520 –> 00:28:38,400
Do you think when they were writing Naruto, they cried about it or they were like, lol,

589
00:28:38,400 –> 00:28:39,680
that sucks for them.

590
00:28:39,680 –> 00:28:42,880
They were like, got them.

591
00:28:42,880 –> 00:28:44,920
Yeah.

592
00:28:44,920 –> 00:28:45,920
And they did.

593
00:28:45,920 –> 00:28:46,920
They really, really did.

594
00:28:46,920 –> 00:28:47,920
Truly.

595
00:28:47,920 –> 00:28:51,280
I think it’s really interesting this, you know, cause I think it’s a lot of our generation,

596
00:28:51,280 –> 00:28:54,480
us being millennials who came up, like we’re the first ones who came up watching anime

597
00:28:54,480 –> 00:28:57,560
cause like Toonami was there, like we’re that generation.

598
00:28:57,560 –> 00:29:03,320
I think it’s really interesting seeing people become producers, directors, novelists, creators

599
00:29:03,320 –> 00:29:08,880
in their own right, like successful as adults in seeing how these themes are starting to

600
00:29:08,880 –> 00:29:12,240
like weave their way in into their stories.

601
00:29:12,240 –> 00:29:15,720
And I don’t know, like maybe a general audience wouldn’t be able to tell, but you can tell

602
00:29:15,720 –> 00:29:18,120
when you’re reading a book, like this person likes anime.

603
00:29:18,120 –> 00:29:19,120
I peeped it.

604
00:29:19,120 –> 00:29:20,120
I see it.

605
00:29:20,120 –> 00:29:21,120
Yeah.

606
00:29:21,120 –> 00:29:25,080
I mean, I know that like Tracy Dion has talked about that author of Legend of Horon.

607
00:29:25,080 –> 00:29:29,280
I haven’t seen the last Creed, but I know Michael B. Jordan has like talked about his

608
00:29:29,280 –> 00:29:35,920
like anime like inspirations and stuff and like, yeah, shoot, Megan Thee Stallion, like

609
00:29:35,920 –> 00:29:40,680
all of her anime photo shoots and like references in her raps.

610
00:29:40,680 –> 00:29:41,680
Like I love it.

611
00:29:41,680 –> 00:29:42,680
It’s a great time.

612
00:29:42,680 –> 00:29:43,680
Yeah.

613
00:29:43,680 –> 00:29:47,680
It’s such a great time to be a black kid nerd, blurred, whatever you want to call it, whatever

614
00:29:47,680 –> 00:29:48,680
you call yourself.

615
00:29:48,680 –> 00:29:49,680
It’s a great time.

616
00:29:49,680 –> 00:29:50,680
We’re having a great time out here.

617
00:29:50,680 –> 00:29:54,780
As a writer, I thought it’d be fun to ask you if you could be brought on to co-write

618
00:29:54,780 –> 00:29:57,120
an anime, what kind of story would you tell?

619
00:29:57,120 –> 00:30:00,800
I said co-wrote because we do respect, you know, people from the culture.

620
00:30:00,800 –> 00:30:02,680
So it would have to be a co-writing situation.

621
00:30:02,680 –> 00:30:03,680
Very much so.

622
00:30:03,680 –> 00:30:06,840
I would want like to have more like black characters.

623
00:30:06,840 –> 00:30:10,200
I’ve watched, I don’t think I’m caught, I’m definitely not caught up with Burrito, but

624
00:30:10,200 –> 00:30:13,160
I am semi watching it.

625
00:30:13,160 –> 00:30:18,280
Chocho is the best and I just like love her and you know, want all good things for her.

626
00:30:18,280 –> 00:30:19,920
So like that’d be nice.

627
00:30:19,920 –> 00:30:23,360
But also, I don’t know, something like with magic and like fancy.

628
00:30:23,360 –> 00:30:24,480
I definitely like.

629
00:30:24,480 –> 00:30:28,560
I like shonen, so I would want it to, you know, I want the pain and like the.

630
00:30:28,560 –> 00:30:29,560
I was gonna ask.

631
00:30:29,560 –> 00:30:31,560
It definitely should hurt.

632
00:30:31,560 –> 00:30:32,560
Yeah.

633
00:30:32,560 –> 00:30:33,560
Swords, dragons, I don’t know.

634
00:30:33,560 –> 00:30:34,560
It’d be great.

635
00:30:34,560 –> 00:30:35,560
Ooh, dragons.

636
00:30:35,560 –> 00:30:36,560
Dragons would be tight.

637
00:30:36,560 –> 00:30:37,560
Yes, dragons please.

638
00:30:37,560 –> 00:30:39,560
Black girl dragon riders in an anime.

639
00:30:39,560 –> 00:30:40,560
Yep.

640
00:30:40,560 –> 00:30:41,560
Sign me up.

641
00:30:41,560 –> 00:30:49,160
I really doubt there are anime creators listening, but if there are, I welcome you to contact

642
00:30:49,160 –> 00:30:50,160
Sayada.

643
00:30:50,160 –> 00:30:52,160
She got a website, she got contact information.

644
00:30:52,160 –> 00:30:53,160
I do, I do.

645
00:30:53,160 –> 00:30:54,320
I’d watch the heck out of that.

646
00:30:54,320 –> 00:30:55,320
I agree.

647
00:30:55,320 –> 00:30:59,920
I wish I could see more black people in anime, also just in Asian pop culture in general.

648
00:30:59,920 –> 00:31:03,720
I think there is a line like I’m not saying, you know, there is cultural imperialism.

649
00:31:03,720 –> 00:31:07,000
So like I want it to be true to the cultures that are creating the works.

650
00:31:07,000 –> 00:31:09,080
However, black people live in those countries too.

651
00:31:09,080 –> 00:31:10,080
Like let’s not pretend.

652
00:31:10,080 –> 00:31:11,080
Let’s not pretend.

653
00:31:11,080 –> 00:31:12,080
Yeah.

654
00:31:12,080 –> 00:31:13,080
We’re everywhere.

655
00:31:13,080 –> 00:31:14,760
So I would like to see it very much so.

656
00:31:14,760 –> 00:31:16,520
It’s something I’ve long desired.

657
00:31:16,520 –> 00:31:20,640
I recently recorded with Mary Clay of That’s What I’m Talking About and I talked a lot

658
00:31:20,640 –> 00:31:21,640
about Galadriel.

659
00:31:21,640 –> 00:31:24,560
I know that the Galadriel quotes are top of mind.

660
00:31:24,560 –> 00:31:27,360
So I apologize.

661
00:31:27,360 –> 00:31:30,600
That’s not the brand right now, but I can’t help it.

662
00:31:30,600 –> 00:31:32,440
I’m a Galadriel stan.

663
00:31:32,440 –> 00:31:35,920
We did talk about what maybe would you have been into in the past.

664
00:31:35,920 –> 00:31:41,080
And I know you don’t have like a lot of time, but if you did have time, what Asian pop culture

665
00:31:41,080 –> 00:31:44,640
or fandom spaces are you intrigued by right now?

666
00:31:44,640 –> 00:31:47,240
Well I would catch up on that list, but you said me.

667
00:31:47,240 –> 00:31:48,240
First and foremost.

668
00:31:48,240 –> 00:31:49,240
Good answer.

669
00:31:49,240 –> 00:31:54,440
I do want to watch like Hunter x Hunter or like My Hero Academia.

670
00:31:54,440 –> 00:31:57,440
They’re like the two I feel like I hear about all the- I think my brother watches them,

671
00:31:57,440 –> 00:31:59,520
which is probably why I hear about them most.

672
00:31:59,520 –> 00:32:04,400
Like I feel like if I can get the time, like one of those would probably be the ones that

673
00:32:04,400 –> 00:32:05,400
I start with, my sister.

674
00:32:05,400 –> 00:32:07,760
But yeah, I mean I’m open to recommendations.

675
00:32:07,760 –> 00:32:12,040
Like I’m not, you know, you can send them to me with the grain of salt that like it might

676
00:32:12,040 –> 00:32:18,360
take me five to seven business years to start the first one, but I got you.

677
00:32:18,360 –> 00:32:19,360
Yeah, that’s fair.

678
00:32:19,360 –> 00:32:21,680
I also saw like Spy Family looks cool.

679
00:32:21,680 –> 00:32:24,080
Like there’s just like I’ve been seeing them in my periphery.

680
00:32:24,080 –> 00:32:25,200
I think that one’s pretty short.

681
00:32:25,200 –> 00:32:29,360
I also have to be clear, even though I host this podcast, I have a watch list of both

682
00:32:29,360 –> 00:32:32,440
of movies, animes, K dramas.

683
00:32:32,440 –> 00:32:35,080
I now have J dramas that have been recommended to me.

684
00:32:35,080 –> 00:32:36,080
Like the list is long.

685
00:32:36,080 –> 00:32:37,080
It just keeps growing.

686
00:32:37,080 –> 00:32:38,080
So like I very much relate.

687
00:32:38,080 –> 00:32:39,080
It only grows.

688
00:32:39,080 –> 00:32:40,080
Yeah.

689
00:32:40,080 –> 00:32:41,080
It never shrinks.

690
00:32:41,080 –> 00:32:43,680
Not because you don’t watch things off of them, but there’s more to consume than there

691
00:32:43,680 –> 00:32:45,400
is that is consumed.

692
00:32:45,400 –> 00:32:46,400
That is the-

693
00:32:46,400 –> 00:32:51,280
I mean, looking at my to read list, my TBR, I just be like, bro, can y’all just pause

694
00:32:51,280 –> 00:32:52,360
on releasing books?

695
00:32:52,360 –> 00:32:53,880
Like don’t, don’t do that.

696
00:32:53,880 –> 00:32:56,200
But sometimes, can I pause?

697
00:32:56,200 –> 00:32:57,200
Yeah.

698
00:32:57,200 –> 00:33:00,600
There’s still books also that I’m really intrigued by.

699
00:33:00,600 –> 00:33:02,280
Like what is their name?

700
00:33:02,280 –> 00:33:03,280
The author.

701
00:33:03,280 –> 00:33:04,560
They got really big on YouTube.

702
00:33:04,560 –> 00:33:06,520
Also, I think they’re on TikTok.

703
00:33:06,520 –> 00:33:07,520
Zuren?

704
00:33:07,520 –> 00:33:08,520
Oh, yeah.

705
00:33:08,520 –> 00:33:09,520
Iron Widow.

706
00:33:09,520 –> 00:33:10,520
Yes.

707
00:33:10,520 –> 00:33:11,520
Iron Widow.

708
00:33:11,520 –> 00:33:12,520
That’s really good.

709
00:33:12,520 –> 00:33:19,640
When it was an out yet, I was like, oh, I’m going to read the heck out of this book.

710
00:33:19,640 –> 00:33:20,640
The sequel is out.

711
00:33:20,640 –> 00:33:21,640
I’m pretty sure.

712
00:33:21,640 –> 00:33:22,640
And I still have not read it.

713
00:33:22,640 –> 00:33:23,640
Well, no, it’s not out yet.

714
00:33:23,640 –> 00:33:24,640
Sequel doesn’t come out till-

715
00:33:24,640 –> 00:33:25,640
Okay.

716
00:33:25,640 –> 00:33:26,640
Oh, wait, it got it.

717
00:33:26,640 –> 00:33:27,640
It got pushed back.

718
00:33:27,640 –> 00:33:28,640
That’s right.

719
00:33:28,640 –> 00:33:29,640
That’s right.

720
00:33:29,640 –> 00:33:30,640
But it’s still on my TBR.

721
00:33:30,640 –> 00:33:31,880
So I will be reading stuff.

722
00:33:31,880 –> 00:33:33,960
I will maybe even review them for this podcast.

723
00:33:33,960 –> 00:33:34,960
Who’s to say?

724
00:33:34,960 –> 00:33:35,960
But like-

725
00:33:35,960 –> 00:33:36,960
Shoot, now I’m thinking about it.

726
00:33:36,960 –> 00:33:37,960
I’m like, I got Rex.

727
00:33:37,960 –> 00:33:41,240
You said that and I’m like, oh yeah, like book books.

728
00:33:41,240 –> 00:33:42,920
Brian is also a prolific reader.

729
00:33:42,920 –> 00:33:45,800
She won’t own to it because in our friend group, we’ve got lots of readers.

730
00:33:45,800 –> 00:33:47,800
Yeah, I was going to say, I am average.

731
00:33:47,800 –> 00:33:49,480
Well, I mean, what am I like?

732
00:33:49,480 –> 00:33:51,560
I’m like high, but like not quite.

733
00:33:51,560 –> 00:33:54,520
You’re the upper end of average, but in our friend group, you’re very mid.

734
00:33:54,520 –> 00:33:57,840
Yeah, I’m like not doing, I’m actually not even doing that much.

735
00:33:57,840 –> 00:34:00,640
I got to tell people in my family, they’d be like, but you read a thousand books.

736
00:34:00,640 –> 00:34:01,640
I’m like, relax.

737
00:34:01,640 –> 00:34:05,840
I know people who actually read a thousand books.

738
00:34:05,840 –> 00:34:06,840
So.

739
00:34:06,840 –> 00:34:09,920
Yeah, it’s really wild in our friend group, but she does read a lot.

740
00:34:09,920 –> 00:34:12,960
So do you have book Rex in this vein?

741
00:34:12,960 –> 00:34:14,640
So I would say Iron Widow.

742
00:34:14,640 –> 00:34:17,000
It’s super tight.

743
00:34:17,000 –> 00:34:20,960
The main character is like unhinged in like a really great way.

744
00:34:20,960 –> 00:34:21,960
My favorite.

745
00:34:21,960 –> 00:34:23,760
Daughter of the Moon Goddess.

746
00:34:23,760 –> 00:34:25,640
I’ve read, it’s a duology.

747
00:34:25,640 –> 00:34:29,520
I’ve read the first one and haven’t gotten to the second one yet, but soon.

748
00:34:29,520 –> 00:34:33,280
These Violent Delights are Violent Ends by Chloe Gong.

749
00:34:33,280 –> 00:34:34,280
That’s really good.

750
00:34:34,280 –> 00:34:36,520
I read the next Foul Lady Fortune.

751
00:34:36,520 –> 00:34:37,520
I read that.

752
00:34:37,520 –> 00:34:38,520
Oh, I haven’t read that yet.

753
00:34:38,520 –> 00:34:39,520
It was cool.

754
00:34:39,520 –> 00:34:40,520
I liked it.

755
00:34:40,520 –> 00:34:43,400
And I know she has a sequel to that coming out and like plenty of other books.

756
00:34:43,400 –> 00:34:44,740
We’ll put all these in the show notes.

757
00:34:44,740 –> 00:34:45,980
So don’t y’all fret.

758
00:34:45,980 –> 00:34:47,880
They will be there for you to peruse.

759
00:34:47,880 –> 00:34:48,880
Yeah.

760
00:34:48,880 –> 00:34:50,760
Oh, oh, oh, okay.

761
00:34:50,760 –> 00:34:51,800
Jade City.

762
00:34:51,800 –> 00:34:58,100
I am still like, I’m still back and forth on whether I’m going to sue our friend, Portia,

763
00:34:58,100 –> 00:35:00,100
for emotional distress.

764
00:35:00,100 –> 00:35:02,080
That trilogy, the Greenbone Saga.

765
00:35:02,080 –> 00:35:03,080
Oh my God.

766
00:35:03,080 –> 00:35:05,280
Oh, it’s like free.

767
00:35:05,280 –> 00:35:08,360
It’s amazing and devastating.

768
00:35:08,360 –> 00:35:15,520
And I literally, I read this, I read it last summer and I was at Disneyland with my family.

769
00:35:15,520 –> 00:35:20,440
And so we were, it was like before we were like in the hotel about to go and like I was

770
00:35:20,440 –> 00:35:21,440
on the last book.

771
00:35:21,440 –> 00:35:23,640
Like this thing happened.

772
00:35:23,640 –> 00:35:24,640
So crazy.

773
00:35:24,640 –> 00:35:26,960
Like I was like, oh my God, I don’t know what’s going on.

774
00:35:26,960 –> 00:35:28,400
And then I had to like go to Disneyland.

775
00:35:28,400 –> 00:35:32,600
Like I’m at Disneyland thinking about these characters and like crazy.

776
00:35:32,600 –> 00:35:36,960
Also has an unhinged main character who I love, but really like he needs help.

777
00:35:36,960 –> 00:35:37,960
Yes.

778
00:35:37,960 –> 00:35:42,000
And he’s like, take the weapons away from him.

779
00:35:42,000 –> 00:35:45,000
He does not need to be in charge, but he’s great.

780
00:35:45,000 –> 00:35:46,000
Okay.

781
00:35:46,000 –> 00:35:47,000
Yeah.

782
00:35:47,000 –> 00:35:48,000
But those, I feel like those are good.

783
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:50,480
So the Jade City Greenbone Saga is adult.

784
00:35:50,480 –> 00:35:52,680
We said these violent delights, that’s YA.

785
00:35:52,680 –> 00:35:56,320
Oh, Daughter of the Moon Goddess is adult and then Ironwoodo is YA.

786
00:35:56,320 –> 00:35:57,320
Yeah.

787
00:35:57,320 –> 00:36:01,840
So if you’re a Black nerd like we are, but maybe you fell off of reading, maybe you’re

788
00:36:01,840 –> 00:36:07,320
just like, I want to dive deeper into these types of stories or these cultures.

789
00:36:07,320 –> 00:36:08,680
They’re so good.

790
00:36:08,680 –> 00:36:12,440
The representation, well, honestly, the representation in publishing is still abysmal, but it’s getting

791
00:36:12,440 –> 00:36:13,760
better all the time.

792
00:36:13,760 –> 00:36:16,240
And the stories that are out are so good.

793
00:36:16,240 –> 00:36:20,200
I say that as someone who’s a bad reader, but what I have read, so, so good.

794
00:36:20,200 –> 00:36:23,000
Please, please, please pick up some books.

795
00:36:23,000 –> 00:36:28,760
I guess my last question is what do you think can be gained through Black and Asian pop

796
00:36:28,760 –> 00:36:29,760
cultural exchange?

797
00:36:29,760 –> 00:36:36,040
Whether that be through coalition or the type of media we put out?

798
00:36:36,040 –> 00:36:37,040
No wrong answers.

799
00:36:37,040 –> 00:36:39,080
I mean, I think both.

800
00:36:39,080 –> 00:36:45,320
I think that we consume a lot of Asian media at this point or have grown up consuming it.

801
00:36:45,320 –> 00:36:52,360
I think that our culture is also worldwide and people are seeing it and, why did my brain

802
00:36:52,360 –> 00:36:53,360
go Mr. Worldwide?

803
00:36:53,360 –> 00:36:54,360
I know.

804
00:36:54,360 –> 00:36:58,000
I didn’t mean to say it like that, but yeah.

805
00:36:58,000 –> 00:37:03,640
And folks are consuming that, some are appropriating that, some are taking inspiration from that.

806
00:37:03,640 –> 00:37:07,600
And so I do think that there is something to be, like there’s already that exchange

807
00:37:07,600 –> 00:37:13,880
happening, but I do think that there is definitely something to be gained by those conversations

808
00:37:13,880 –> 00:37:17,400
and also a more intentional exchange.

809
00:37:17,400 –> 00:37:22,840
Be that through recommendations, culture building, activism.

810
00:37:22,840 –> 00:37:27,480
There are a lot of different ways that we could use that media to both strengthen our

811
00:37:27,480 –> 00:37:33,240
relationships across cultures, but then also strengthen our current standing in the world,

812
00:37:33,240 –> 00:37:35,320
I guess is the best way to say it.

813
00:37:35,320 –> 00:37:36,320
Broaden our worldview.

814
00:37:36,320 –> 00:37:39,760
Yeah, broaden our worldview, but then also just like, you know, solidarity.

815
00:37:39,760 –> 00:37:46,600
There’s just a lot of, in that exchange, there’s also a lot of anti-black sentiments,

816
00:37:46,600 –> 00:37:52,160
anti-Asian sentiments in places where it doesn’t really make sense to do that.

817
00:37:52,160 –> 00:37:57,480
So even as we’re learning these new things and expanding our worldviews away from the

818
00:37:57,480 –> 00:38:03,080
very narrow Eurocentric white supremacist worldview, we also then fall into some of

819
00:38:03,080 –> 00:38:04,600
those things at the same time.

820
00:38:04,600 –> 00:38:12,280
And so we sure do, you know, trying not to do that and having more honest and open conversations

821
00:38:12,280 –> 00:38:16,840
about that, I think, like doing that intentionally, I think would be really dope.

822
00:38:16,840 –> 00:38:20,560
That’s what we aim to do here, culture by culture.

823
00:38:20,560 –> 00:38:21,960
But I agree.

824
00:38:21,960 –> 00:38:22,960
That’s what I want most of all.

825
00:38:22,960 –> 00:38:29,200
I get always so almost personally hurt when I see, especially online, it happens a lot

826
00:38:29,200 –> 00:38:33,280
online, where on either side, like you see anti-black or anti-Asian sentiment, I’m like,

827
00:38:33,280 –> 00:38:36,840
but it doesn’t have to be this way because of my true belief is when we’re doing that,

828
00:38:36,840 –> 00:38:41,320
we’re just letting white supremacy win because that’s ultimately what’s at play, us propping

829
00:38:41,320 –> 00:38:42,320
up white supremacy.

830
00:38:42,320 –> 00:38:43,320
Why are we doing that?

831
00:38:43,320 –> 00:38:44,320
Right.

832
00:38:44,320 –> 00:38:45,320
Cut it out.

833
00:38:45,320 –> 00:38:48,280
And like at this point, obviously now there are like genuine hurts and like issues that

834
00:38:48,280 –> 00:38:53,680
need to be worked out, but we can do that without then resorting to the same old tactics.

835
00:38:53,680 –> 00:38:54,680
Because people do.

836
00:38:54,680 –> 00:38:56,320
So if you’re listening, cut it out.

837
00:38:56,320 –> 00:38:58,760
We have so much potential for a better world.

838
00:38:58,760 –> 00:39:00,280
It’s really so simple.

839
00:39:00,280 –> 00:39:03,040
It’s not, but the start is simple.

840
00:39:03,040 –> 00:39:04,620
The first step is actually pretty simple.

841
00:39:04,620 –> 00:39:05,620
Cut it out.

842
00:39:05,620 –> 00:39:06,620
Yeah.

843
00:39:06,620 –> 00:39:08,960
Then we can work out the rest.

844
00:39:08,960 –> 00:39:10,800
Well thanks for coming, Byana.

845
00:39:10,800 –> 00:39:13,440
Tell the good folks where they can find you.

846
00:39:13,440 –> 00:39:14,440
Yeah.

847
00:39:14,440 –> 00:39:23,400
So I am on Twitter and Instagram at yanawroteit and I host a podcast called Wizard Team, which

848
00:39:23,400 –> 00:39:28,120
is a black fantasy podcast where we highlight stories written by black authors.

849
00:39:28,120 –> 00:39:31,600
I write things, but like there’s nothing that you can find.

850
00:39:31,600 –> 00:39:32,600
So don’t worry about it.

851
00:39:32,600 –> 00:39:33,600
Yet.

852
00:39:33,600 –> 00:39:34,600
Don’t worry about it for now.

853
00:39:34,600 –> 00:39:35,600
Eventually there will be things.

854
00:39:35,600 –> 00:39:36,600
Great.

855
00:39:36,600 –> 00:39:40,160
Well, thank you all so much for listening.

856
00:39:40,160 –> 00:39:42,480
Let me know if y’all have any book recommendations.

857
00:39:42,480 –> 00:39:47,080
Again, it will be five to seven business years before I get to them.

858
00:39:47,080 –> 00:39:51,120
But share your book recs, your favorite Asian authors we would love to know.

859
00:39:51,120 –> 00:39:54,120
Or if you’ve read any of the books that Byana mentioned, what did you think of them?

860
00:39:54,120 –> 00:39:58,560
Would love to know, you can let us know at Culture X podcast on Twitter or Instagram.

861
00:39:58,560 –> 00:40:00,200
You can also find us on Patreon.

862
00:40:00,200 –> 00:40:01,200
Oh my goodness.

863
00:40:01,200 –> 00:40:02,200
We have a Patreon.

864
00:40:02,200 –> 00:40:03,200
Yeah, we do.

865
00:40:03,200 –> 00:40:05,440
Patreon.com slash Culture X podcast.

866
00:40:05,440 –> 00:40:07,040
There’s a lot of cute stuff over there.

867
00:40:07,040 –> 00:40:11,080
You can just see some of the behind the scenes, see what I’m thinking, where we going, who’s

868
00:40:11,080 –> 00:40:12,600
coming on the show.

869
00:40:12,600 –> 00:40:17,040
Or maybe if you pick a higher tier, you might be able to help me out and participate in

870
00:40:17,040 –> 00:40:18,840
the podcast a little bit.

871
00:40:18,840 –> 00:40:21,240
So hopefully we’ll see y’all over there.

872
00:40:21,240 –> 00:40:23,840
But until then, keep it chill and keep it nerdy.

873
00:40:23,840 –> 00:40:24,840
I’ll see you guys later.

874
00:40:24,840 –> 00:40:52,320
Let’s get some serious work done over here.